SCIGN Site Reconnaissance Progress Log

Yehuda Bock
John Galetzka
Nancy King
Bob Packard
Bob Reader
Bill Young

Bob Packard's report:

Profile A:
Bob has been doing recon along the southern end of Profile A. Because of the upscale homes in Palos Verdes, the bad neighborhoods farther inland, and the prevalence of fill, it will be difficult to hit the planned dots of Profile A. However, there are some good possibilities if we relax the bounds around the dots. Below are Bob's possible sites and contacts so far.
South Coast Botanic Gardens: Tony Gonzalez (310-544-6815), in charge of grounds. Bob spoke to Herb, a groundskeeper who gave him Gonzalez' name. If we use this site, the station must not be on the west side of the street, where there is a major landfill.

California Water Service Yard/Lunada Edison Substation: 5837 Crest Road, Rancho Palos Verdes.

Downey High School - Bob visited the school, and sent a letter.

DWP is very positive about this project.

Bob will pursue these possibilities, and continue recon along Profile A.

Electrical permit:
Bob's son, a senior electrical inspector, thinks we need a permit only for the electrical work. After looking at the Statement of Work, he has these suggestions:
Make trench 24 inches deep, instead of 18 inches. If the trench is 24 inches deep, trucks can drive over it.

Specify that we will use UL parts.

Specify that power and phone lines will be in separate conduit, although in the same trench.

Prepare drawings, and specify meter and breaker box in drawings. We hope to get our power from our hosts in most cases, but the drawing should be for the most difficult case.

Bob will pursue this issue.

Santa Barbara County: Bob has contacted the county surveyor, who will be shortly sending a map to Bob.

LAX: Bob has contacts at the airport. One is George Akin, in Operations.

Will Prescott will do two days of recon, sometime in the next two weeks.

Yehuda Bock told Nancy King that Scripps will begin active recon in the middle of September. George Liu, a Unavco engineer, will arrive September 8. He will be working with both Scripps and USGS-Pasadena.

(1) He will fax latitude/longitude of the possible sites in Escondido (the positions were in California state plane coordinates).

(2) He just received the locations of 60 fire stations in Orange County. He will use the DeLorme map to convert address to latitude/longitude, and send these to Nancy next week.

John Galetzka is pursuing two contacts:

Nancy is also preparing a list of sites for the "B Team" (Scripps, led by Yehuda Bock). Yehuda returns to Scripps on Thursday.

Bob Packard delivered a map from Ed Villa, Santa Barbara County Surveyor. There are potential sites from Public Works, fire stations, and county parks. Bob will contact the Department of Water and Power, continue recon along Profile A, and help with permitting within L.A.

Mike Watkins and Nancy spoke (after playing phone tag for days) to clarify who will do what in Santa Barbara County. JPL will work with Bruce Luyendyk (UC Santa Barbara) to put in rock pin monuments on Santa Cruz Island and on Santa Ynez Peak. JPL and UCSB are working to find a place to put UCSB's third receiver. All three of UCSB's sites will be installed by JPL, not the contractor. For other sites in Santa Barbara County, either JPL or USGS will do the recon.

The PacBell person handling land use permits for USGS called. Nancy sent a copy of the SCIGN booklet to P.J. Pandya. He will get back to Nancy early next week.

Nancy and Pat Thomas finally connected, and discussed a possible site in Escondido. Although Pat had thought of three possible sites, during the conversation it became clear that the city corporation yard was probably the best bet. Nancy e-mailed Pat's name and number to George Liu (the B Team). Pat will look at the corporation yard with George.

Nancy sent George Liu a list of sites to recon. These are in Escondido, Riverside County, San Bernadino County, and Victorville. Some of these sites are far from LA, and we probably wouldn't do them first. However, in the absence of other sites, George might as well look at them. We'll want to build sites in these areas eventually.

Nancy spoke to Jake Madigan, of the Department of Water and Power (City of LA). Nancy looked at DWP maps provided by Bob Packard, and faxed to Jake the names of those we'd like to look at. DWP is going to do the initial recon; SCIGN people will look at DWP sites after this first cut.

Dan Ponti told Nancy King about a Hollywood site. This site has, or will have, several types of instruments, and SCIGN may be able to use it too. Dan will e-mail a site description to Nancy.

George Liu delivered a new set of B Team results.

Yehuda Bock, SIO
John Galetzka, USGS-Pasadena
Ken Hudnut, USGS-Pasadena
Paul Jamason, SIO
Nancy King, USGS-Pasadena
John McRaney, USC
John Scheid, JPL
Mike Watkins, JPL
Frank Wyatt, SIO
Bill Young, volunteer extraordinaire

Many issues were discussed, but only site reconnaissance is described here. We decided to have SCIGN people continue the recon effort, at least for now. We did not decide exactly when the contractors will take over this work. For now, Bill Young, Bob Packard, and Bob Reader will continue to find potential sites for us, and we will continue to evaluate them. This work goes fairly quickly, so permitting is the highest priority. John Galetzka is handling that for the A Team; Paul Jamason will do it for the B Team. JPL is beginning recon in Ventura County, and will install two sites for Bruce Luyendyk in November. Right now, since we don't have all the equipment yet, site recon is not getting in the way of the site upgrades. When everything is ready, JPL and Scripps will work on the upgrades. This is especially convenient because JPL has to install met packages (for El Nino) anyway.

After the conference call, Paul Jamason met with John Galetzka to become familiar with the permitting process.

Nancy King called Jake Madigan, Chief Surveyor at DWP (Department of Water and Power). He has looked at both water and power installations, and has picked out potential sites for us. He and John Galetzka will tour these sites next week. DWP is one of the agencies using RTK.

Caltrans District 7 at 850 E. Huntington, Monrovia: "Uncertain" changed to "No" (no space)
LA County Road Division 116: "Yes" changed to "No" (location of proposed site turns out to in in the way)
LA County Road Division 114: "Uncertain changed to "No" (lack of space)
LA County Rio Hondo Spreading Grounds: "Uncertain" changed to "Yes" (had trouble finding gate on previous trip)

Shannon Van Wyk, USC employee now working at USGS-Pasadena, has been searching for GIS coverages that will be useful in our recon. Shannon worked as a GIS technician for the state of Iowa. She has connected with a GIS person at the Metropolitan Water District. MWD has already assembled coverages of active water wells. This should be very useful.

Nancy King sent the particulars of 47 potential new sites to the other two members of the Siting Committee (Duncan Agnew and Frank Webb).

On the average, it takes a day of work by one recon crew to find one suitable site.

Of the sites judged to be suitable so far (not all these sites will be used, necessarily),

11% require fences around the monument, or repair of existing fences after construction. The number of fenced monuments in the eventual network may be larger, since so far we have not done much reconnaissance of schools.

75% require "site remediation," that is, repair of asphalt or landscaping after construction.


15% require solar power and radio downloading.

The USGS-Pasadena field crew has been visiting schools this week. In general, schools are anxious to have SCIGN and give verbal approval fairly rapidly. However, it's hard to say how long formal Land Use Agreements will take.

Nancy King and maybe Ken Hudnut will attend the National Height Modernization Forum in Ontario, CA, next Monday. NGS people and surveyors will attend, and are very interested in SCIGN. Yehuda Bock will attend a satellite meeting of surveyors to discuss using SCIGN to define a reference system.

Bill Young has met with surveyors from various cities and counties, and has or will soon get lists of possible sites from

Kern County
City of Costa Mesa (Orange County)
Needles (CA/AZ border)

The permit from the Metropolitan Water District is almost ready.

Shannon Van Wyk, Nami Kitchen, and Bob Packard will visit various Los Angeles public schools this week.

Bill Young sent Nancy King the positions of three possible sites in Orange County.

On Monday, Bill Young, Nancy King, John Galetzka, Paul Jamason, and Myra Medina attended an expanded meeting of the SCIGN Executive Committee.

Bill Young reported his contacts with Kern County, and cities in Orange County; these organizations are eager to provide SCIGN sites.

Bill Young also reported that all sites operational by May 1 will be in the National Spatial Reference System.

Nancy King and John Galetzka reported that we have 90 sites in progress. With a few exceptions, we will "stand pat" with these sites until we have done we can to push the permits through. The exceptions are agencies we are already dealing with. After that, we will start a "second wave" of site recon. We have discovered that finding suitable sites is relatively easy, but that getting the permits takes a long time.

Frank Webb reported that Bruce Luyendyk (UC Santa Barbara) is currently working on getting permits for his three sites on Santa Cruz Island, the Santa Ynez Mountains, and the UCSB campus.

Mike Watkins will try to hire someone to do recon and permitting at JPL.

Two accepted sites will probably have to be dropped. At Roosevelt High School, the principal rejected all possible sites found by John Galetzka. The Rosemead school board is worried about liability, so Rosemead High School is probably out.

The MWD permits are now in the hands of their bureaucracy, awaiting the last few signatures. Perris Power Plant did not get into this first package of sites. It will go in the second package, being prepared now. We, and our MWD contact, are now much more savvy about what it takes to get permits through. On Wednesday, John Galetzka and Mike Duffy of MWD looked at possible sites east of the Salton Sea. These sites are along MWD's pipeline from the Colorado River.

Dominguez High School (so little cooperation from the administration that even John Galetzka gave up)
Rio Hondo Spreading Grounds (John Galetzka now rejects it because of geology)
Roosevelt High School (principal turned down all possible spots)
Santa Ana College (first they agreed on a spot, then they reneged)

El Camino Real High School (they need all possible spots on campus, but nearby Hale ES might do)
Rosemead High School (they are worried about liability)

Arcadia District Office is now LA Arboretum. The two facilities are adjacent. Utilities will still come from Aracada District Office.
California Elementary School is now La Puente High School (nearby).

Eagle Mtn OR Hinds Pumping Plant (MWD). These are close to each other, so John Galetzka and MWD will choose.
Iron Mtn Pumping Plant (MWD)
Gene Pumping Plant (MWD)
Pearblossom Pumping Plant (DWR)

John Galetzka and Mike Duffy of MWD decided to use the Hinds Pumping Plant (see the "Several new sites ..." list in the previous entry). Hinds, Iron Mtn, and Gene Pumping Plants will definitely make it onto the MWD permit. This permit should be issued in a few days. Yes, we've said this before, but this time we really mean it.

Present:


John Galetzka, USGS
Nancy King, USGS
Mark Smith, JPL
Art Varon, retired Ventura County Surveyor
Frank Webb, JPL
Bill Young, SCIGN


Art Varon, LS, is the retired County Surveyor for Ventura County. He is now a volunteer for SCIGN. Art knows Ventura County, and the surveying community there, very well. He is going to look for a strainmeter site. He will also contact the current Ventura County Surveyor (Art Chacon), and a surveyor he knows at Union Oil (a large property owner). He will provide to Nancy King a list of possible sites, probably in about three weeks.

Ventura County recon will be difficult. There are many sites to be found, many of them in remote areas. These areas are inaccessible now, due to recent rain and landslides. In this region, the dots are wishful thinking. We'll do the best we can.

Mark Smith, JPL, will handle most recon in Ventura County. Nancy will provide the site lists to Mark and Frank. They, in turn, will communicate the results to Nancy and John.

Mark will also handle recon along Profile A in the San Gabriel Mountains. This is a difficult area, in the Angeles National Forest. This is another area where reality is likely to alter our original plan.

The USGS site recon crews will continue to work on sites currently under development, by them, in Ventura County.

John Galetzka is currently is contact with the Santa Barbara County Surveyors, and will continue to handle those prospective sites.

Bob Packard called Nancy King to report on progress at the Los Angeles Unified School District. They seem to be on top of the land use agreement procedure. The LAUSD sent our proposal for the various sites out for comments, which are due back this Thursday. So, they have a timetable which seems to be fairly quick. They estimated three weeks for the permit process.

Last Friday, John Galetzka and Shannon Van Wyk worked on wrapping up USGS sites-in-progress in Ventura County. The rest of this work will be handled by Mark Smith of JPL.

According to Mike Raihle of San Bernadino County, the land use agreements for Apple Valley, Baldy Mesa, Barstow, and Big Bear Lake Road Yards were unexpectedly held up in S.B. County's real estate office. However, things are moving again.

Palomar Observatory has mailed him a sample permit, even before he and John Galetzka have visited the site. So, if we decide to take that site, it should progress rapidly.

John Galetzka and Paul and in the process of sending out permit materials to Imperial County, Imperial Irrigation District, Cypress College, and the U.S. Gypsum Company.

Yesterday, John Galetzka and Paul Jamason visited sites in Orange and San Diego counties. They met with the surveyors from the City of San Clemente, who are very enthusiastic about SCIGN. No specific site has been selected yet, but John and Paul are confident that one can be found.

Also last week, John Galetzka and Shannon Van Wyk visited Santa Barbara County, and met with the county surveyor. They found several possible sites.

Mark Smith continues to find possible sites in Ventura County.

Below is e-mail sent by John Galetzka to everyone involved in site recon:

Paul Jamason has reported that the Land Use Agreements (LUA) for Palomar Observatory and Desert Sun Science Center are on their way. Earlier this week the LUA for Mesa Union School arrived (thank you Curt Abdouch!) as did a draft license agreement for DWP's Lower Franklin Reservoir (gladly signed by Nancy and Ken).

Mike Duffy at MWD says that the logjam there has broke and that the sites are "legal". I won't hold my breath 'til I see those papers in my hand, though.

Reports from Mark Smith in Ventura county are that he's doing well on sites at Moorpark College and Happy Valley School to name a few.

Bill Young passes along that a private landowner in the San Gorgonio Pass area has agreed to host our site on this beautiful ridge coming off the San Jacintos.

As you know, Compton Community College was installed earlier this week. The College was the first to sign and return a LUA to us. Brent Kelly gets credit for finding this site during his summer stay at USGS Pasadena.

John Galetzka and Shannon Van Wyk are considering replacing Road Division 446 with a school very close to the Road Division. They want to do this because they can get more open space, and hence better sky view, at the school.

Mike Duffy of MWD says that MWD's Real Estate office has finally released the MWD permits, and they are in the mail.

John and a representative of LA County visited San Gabriel, Morris, and Cogswell dams. Only San Gabriel Dam is suitable for a Wyatt monument. The other sites are on bedrock outcrops inacessible by drill rig. These sites are suitable for metal posts set in holes made by a jackhammer.

We can do better than Sawpit Dam. Sky view is not great (although this is true at many sites in the San Gabriels), and the installation will shortly be taken over by the City of Monrovia.

The Real Estate and Environmental offices at Edwards Air Force Base have worked together to find suitable locations for our two planned sites (Philips Lab and Haystack Butte). John will go out to see them next week.

MWD LUA's for the nine sites to be held by USC have arrived. This brings the total number of LUA's to 38. This number includes Compton College and Cal State Dominguez Hills.

A recent update from Paul Jamason:

San Bernadino County LUA's are still progressing through SB Co. bureaucracy.

Riverside County LUA's are mired somewhere; Paul is checking on this.

All city-owned sites in Escondido have proved unsuitable. Paul and/or John will shortly check on a possible school site.

We might want to consider an alternate to San Bernadino International Airport since they want a lease.

Cypress College LUA in progress.

Los Angeles AFB LUA is in the hands of a major who is getting legal clearance. At that point, the existing GTE equipment at the site will be removed.

Pt Mugu is waiting for a visit from SCIGN.

Montezuma Valley Fire Department LUA is awaiting signature from Fire Department Board president.

Sites belonging to the Imperial Irrigation District are in their real estate department. LUA's will take several weeks.

Glamis LUA has to go through BLM.

Salton City Road Yard is in progress with Imperial County.

Fairview Park (City of Costa Mesa) LUA will be presented at June 1 council meeting.

Paul recently sent off LUA materials to Shorecliffs Middle School and Brown Field.

US Gypsum site LUA has been signed.

Paul will be doing recon in San Bernadino County this week.

On second consideration of sky view and space at Hollenbeck High School and Road Division 446, John Galetzka and Shannon Van Wyk have found replacement stations at California High School and East LA Science and Math Center. Also, Gabrieleno HS replaces Rosemead HS, where permitting proved impossible.

John Galetzka is visiting Edwards Air Force Base to inspect two possible sites they have found for us.

DWP sent copies of LUA's for Lower Franklin Reservoir and Van Norman Complex. Nancy signed them and mailed them back, so we should have fully executed LUA's for these sites soon.

Present:

Duncan Agnew, SIO
Nancy King, USGS
Frank Webb, JPL

At recent meetings, we decided that the Siting Committee would consider the characteristics as well as locations of the proposed sites, and would give final approval to sites after ECI prepares its report. These expanded duties mean that John Galetzka should attend Siting Committee meetings, since he has the answers to many questions that arise. However, he did not attend this meeting because he is on vacation. Since we had several urgent items, we had the meeting anyway.

(1) ECI Reports (For each site, the result appears in parentheses on the same line. Details appear in the indented paragraph.)

Burke Middle School (TELL ECI TO GO AHEAD)
The ECI report recommends accepting this site. At the June 2 meeting, when we were still worried about RTHS, we recommended that this site be built tall. Now that the results are in on RTHS, we withdraw this recommendation.

Carbon Creek Control Structure (DEFER, AS DECIDED ON JUNE 2)

The ECI report does not identify any problems. At the June 2 meeting, we agreed to defer this site "until we have a better understanding of variable multipath." Nothing has been done about this issue since then.

Covina High School (BUILT; ASK THE SCHOOL FOR REGULAR TREE TRIMMING)

This site was built the day of the meeting, so any concerns are moot. The ECI report recommends acceptance, and we did not discuss this site on June 2 because no one raised any questions. However, Frank Webb noted that ECI moved the site, closer to young trees. We recommend that we ask Covina High School if they can keep these trees trimmed.

Coyote Creek Power Plant (DEFER, AS DECIDED ON JUNE 2)

The ECI report identifies some sky view obstructions. At the June 2 meeting, we decided to defer this site until we check for a better site in this area.

Garvey Reservoir (INVESTIGATE FURTHER)

The ECI report recommends further discussion. There are two sites approved by MWD. The ECI report identifies a landslide near the primary site. We know there is subsidence here, although MWD leveling data shows that the primary site is stable. We recommend further investigation.

La Puente HS (BUILT)

The ECI report recommends accepting this site, and no one questioned it at the June 2 meeting. Frank noted that the tree north of the monument has grown substantially since the initial recon.

Long Beach Community College, PCH campus (EC DECIDES)

The ECI report recommends accepting this site, which is intended as a replacement for the building site at LBCH. At the June 2 meeting, we discussed whether we should invest in an expensive drilled monument in an area of major subsidence. The question was passed to the EC, which has not yet made a decision.

Long Beach City College Liberal Arts (EC DECIDES)

The ECI report recommends accepting this site, and no one questioned it at the June 2 meeting. Outside the Siting Committee meeting, although on the same day, both Long Beach sites were tabled pending EC review.

LA Southwest College (DEFER, AS DECIDED ON JUNE 2)

The ECI report identifies some sky view obstructions. At the June 2 meeting, we agreed to investigate alternate sites. This has not been done yet.

Marine Exchange (CHECK BUNKER WALL THICKNESS, PROPERTY LINE)

The ECI report recommends accepting an alternate site that they selected. However, their site is about 60 feet to the northwest. This location is outside the fence, so we need to investigate security and make sure this spot is on Marine Exchange property. At the June 17 meeting, someone (NK does not remember who) suggested using the 20-foot-thick walls of the bunker. We agree that this is acceptable, subject to verification that the walls are really as thick as advertised.

Palos Verdes Reservoir (TELL ECI TO GO AHEAD)

The ECI report recommends accepting this site. At the June 2 meeting, we discussed sky view obstruction by one tree close to the monument. We agreed to look at an alternate Navy facility nearby. John Galetzka did this, and found out that this facility is in Blue Butterfly Land. We don't want to get involved with the blue butterfly. As noted at the June 2 meeting, it is not easy to find sites on the PV Peninsula. The proposed site at PV Reservoir is good enough, so we recommend taking it.

Peninsula HS (TELL ECI TO GO AHEAD)

The ECI report recommends accepting this site, and no one questioned it at the June 2 meeting.

Valley Alternative School (BUILT)

The ECI report recommends accepting this site, and no one questioned it at the June 2 meeting.

At the June 2 meeting, we agreed to review of site photos. We discussed the following questions raised by Ken, Nancy, Frank, and Duncan. John Galetzka probably could have answered many of these concerns, but was not present. Even in his absence, we approved several sites. For sites where we didn't, we need to talk to John about these questions. The information in parentheses is from John's Web page.

Orange Glen High School (recently found, LUA initiated this month):

This site is in alluvium, while Escondido is in the Southern California Batholith. Can we find a site in rock?

Fairfax High School (LUA initiated in May):

There is a very high chain link enclosure on the nearby tennis court. Frank reported that he and John Galetzka already discussed this; there are no other sites in this area. For that reason, we approve this site.

Fire Station 18 (LUA initiated in May):

The proposed site is on a slope with a retaining wall at the bottom. Can the site be moved?

Fairview Park (LUA initiated in May):

How close is the proposed site to cut? What about fill? Are the small palm trees in the photos going to be planted in that location, so close to the proposed site?

Malibu High School (Visited in April, LUA status unknown):

Is the proposed site on fill?

Huntington Park High School (LUA is supposed to arrive in July):

This site looks very tight. Can we come out from the corner? Also, are there young trees nearby?

Olga Reed School (We have an LUA):

The proposed site is at the bottom of a slope, near an area where water collects. Is this the best spot we can find?

San Gorgonio Pass (LUA pending):

Where do the utilities come from? From John's notes, the answer is that this will be a solar/freewave site.

Santa Ana Corporation Yard (LUA is supposed to arrive this month):

This site is in a parking lot. John's photos suggest that we can cut down the young saplings right next to the proposed site. Is this true? Also, remediation costs look high.

US Gypsum Company (We have an LUA):

The proposed site is on a small ridge near the road. Access for drill rig and other construction equipment looks difficult. Can we get another spot on this property?

Brown Field (No information on LUA progress):

The proposed site is right next to several saplings. Can we cut them down? If not, can we get another spot on this property?

Lake Los Angeles School (We have an LUA):

The proposed site is so close to the fence that the underground portions of the legs will be on the other side. If the fence is the property line, we have a problem. Can the proposed site be moved back from the fence?

El Sereno Middle School (LUA is supposed to arrive in July):

In spite of initial concerns about trees, we decided to approve this site. There is no place else to go in this area.

Fremont High School (LUA is supposed to arrive in July):

In spite of initial concerns about trees, we decided to approve this site. There is no place else to go in this area.

Santa Monica Airport (No information on LUA progress):

The aerial photos show that the proposed site is in fill. How deep is it?

Windsor Hills Magnet School (No information on LUA progress):

This site looks tight, and the underground portions of the legs may go outside the property line. Can we find another spot on this property? See Dorsey Hills High School, under Proposed New Sites.

(3) Proposed New Sites

29 Palms Marine Training Center:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 2-38.

Barley Flats Sheriff's Facility:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 3-49.

Compton Unified School District:

John Galetzka and Bob Packard tried to contact CUSD months ago, but the district never answered letters or returned phone calls. Finally, Bob Packard received a letter offering several CUSD schools. We REJECT all CUSD sites. We don't need them, now that Compton College and Cal State Dominguez Hills have been built.

Dorsey Hills High School:

This site is too close to Windsor Hills. However, it is a POSSIBLE REPLACEMENT FOR WINDSOR HILLS.

El Cariso Fire Station (Elsinore Peak):

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. There is already a site log, but we would like to see a SKY VIEW MAP. We assign dot 2-60.

Elysian Park:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 3-125.

Glen Helen Regional Park:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 3-92.

Inglewood High School:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 3-110, pending resolution of possible conflicts with the assignment of this dot.

La Contenta Middle School:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 2-12. However, we wonder whether a rock site is available in this area.

Mojave Site:

We REJECT this location.

Mt Gleason Site:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 2-44.

NavAid Beacon:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 3-114.

Oasis Elementary School:

We REJECT this site, although we wouldn't mind having a monument in this general location. Deformation, identified as creep by the principal, looks more like Landers-related construction failure to us.

Palm Springs Airport:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 3-78.

Pt Mugu:

We REJECT this site, due to poor geology.

San Gorgonio Pass 2:

We REJECT this site, since it is too close to the already-approved San Gorgonio Pass site.

Seven Oaks Dam:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We did not assign a dot. This site is still under construction, so we will not be able to built a monument any time soon. There will be a Terrascope at this site too.

Silverado Elementary School:

We saw a site log and photos, and give FINAL APPROVAL to this site. We assign dot 2-53. We should SEND IT TO ECI as soon as the LUA arrives.

S. Mt Hawkins Lookout:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 3-68 or 3-69, pending resolution of dot confusion.

St Dorothy's School:

This site can be a BACKUP TO PUDDINGSTONE DAM.

Townsend Jr. High School:

We APPROVE the location, and await more information about site characteristics. We assign dot 2-52.

(4) Other Business

Bill Young would like to see a SCIGN site at Needles. Since we already have Blythe and Gene PP, we are reluctant to approve this until we see how many sites we are really going to be able to build. We will reconsider this later.

Nancy is in the process of revising and checking dot assignments. There are a few conflicts and problems. Duncan and Frank will receive copies of the table when it is finished.

We received the signed LUA for West Covina High School.

John reports that the LA Unified School District (LAUSD) LUA's are almost done. LAUSD wants a report on the SCIGN education module, which John will shortly deliver to them.

John talked to our new contact at the Department of Water Resources (DWR). This new person is very cooperative and helpful.

John reports that it will take Los Angeles Air Force Base another two or three months to remove the large antenna near our proposed site.

LA Unified School District (8 sites) has begun to make draft agreements which should be on the USGS desk for review shortly.

Jamason got word from Riverside County that one of two permits is ready (Beaumont Yard).

Ventura County Public Works Agency signed the LUA for Moorpark Yard and the site has been submitted to ECI for review; recommend that Moorpark College be notified that they are a backup site and no longer up for primary consideration.

The Edwards AFB Environmental Impact Statement has been approved for the one site on base.

The DWP permits have been signed for two of three sites and have been passed on to ECI.

USGS team was able to review several of the JPL-found sites in Ventura and Santa Barbara counties; findings are as follows:

CSHP, (Former) Camarillo State Hospital: looks good; images on web; USGS will pick up LUA negotiations.

SMST, San Marcos Station: reject site because of geology, possibly poor skyview, and the fact that proposed site is off Federal property by one foot; images available on web.

HVYS, Happy Valley School: great site, images on web; USGS has picked up LUA negotiations.

GRPK, Grant Park: specific site not yet selected, but general location might have slope stability and skyview problems; recommend sending ECI to investigate and pursue.

SIO team + Packard reports success on finding alternate site to Brown Field site, Cypress College negotiations are back on track (we dodged the State Architecture Board here!), and that several new sites have been found and pursued (ie AHFS, ECFS, RVCO...).

SIO/USGS team will visit 29 Palms Marine Base next week and try to knock out some receiver occupation tests (COTD, IMPS) and new recon at the same time.

The new site at Penisula HS (PVHS) is on hold for several weeks; school admin is waiting to see if the portables will be removed (which gives us drill access) and whether site will be used for athletic.

An alternate site for Coyote Creek Power Plant (CCPP) has been found by Packard + USGS; its name is Sonora HS (SNHS) and is being permitted as I write.

Other problem sites like Canyon HS, Garvey Reservoir and Rio Hondo College are being worked on by ECI, USGS and MWD to find alternatives.

All but one Kern County maintenance yard has been rejected by the USGS recon team; Arvin Road Yard (ARRY) is our friend and an LUA for the site is in the process of being sought.

After months of waffling, research, yak-yak and pondering, the Lake Isabella site will finally be nailed down near the Terrascope site; see images at (ISLK).

That's the major news. We still have about 50 sites to look for to make up the balance of 200 new stations. Guidance from the SSC to the recon teams to go after this last 50 or so stations would be greatly appreciated.

Rio Hondo College, rejected earlier due to landslides, is back on the sled. Eldon Gath, a landslide expert, tells us that the landslide will not impact the chosen site.

Live Oak Reservoir, rejected earlier due to poor sky view, is also back on the sled. John Galetzka and Mike Duffy (MWD) went there and selected a new site with excellent sky view. ECI will do a new site evaluation.

Carbon Creek Control Structure turns out to be on the property of the City of Placentia, not MWD. Nancy has contacted Placentia's Public Works Department. We will be able to obtain a new land use agreement from the city.

We're working with Mike Duffy of MWD to try to figure out whether Garvey Reservoir will be usable. At the moment, subsidence there makes this site look unattractive.

Bill Young will work with Paul Jamason and people from Escondido to see if it's possible to find a rock site in that city.

LA County has issued LUA's for Devil's Punchbowl Park and Eaton Canyon Nature Center.

Present:

Duncan Agnew, SIO
John Galetzka, SCIGN Network Coordinator
Nancy King, USGS
Frank Webb, JPL

(1) Garvey Reservoir (REJECT)

Mike Duffy (MWD) sent Nancy some leveling results from the Garvey area. Frank and Duncan have seen these results also. This data reinforces ECI's reservations about this site. Because the deformation appears to be centered on Garvey Reservoir, we agree that we do not want to commit SCIGN resources to this site. If MWD wishes to build a site at Garvey, we recommend that SCIGN lend a receiver to run there.

(2) Station Density Near Tejon and San Gorgonio Passes

At the request of Ken Hudnut, Nancy added this to the agenda. Duncan and Frank recall that this has been discussed many times before. We agree that we are not willing, at this time, to move dots around.

We resolved the following dot-assignment problems identified by Nancy:
Problem: Cal State Camarillo and Mesa Union School are both assigned to 3148. Decision: Cal State Camarillo and Mesa Union are now assigned to 3149 and 3148, respectively.

Problem: Fairview Park and Santa Ana Corporation Yard are both assigned to 2047. Decision: Since John reports that Cerritos College is being uncooperative about permitting while the Santa Ana LUA is almost done, we take dot 2046 away from Cerritos and assign it to Santa Ana Corporation Yard. If Cerritos College eventually comes through, we'll decide if it rates a dot. Fairview Park keeps dot 2047.

Problem: Inglewood High School and Live Oak Reservoir are both assigned to 3110. Decision: Inglewood HS keeps dot 3110, and Live Oak Reservoir gets dot 2093.

Problem: There is no dot assigned to Iron Mountain Pumping Station. Decision: We assign dot 2003.

Problem: There is no dot assigned to Montezuma Valley Fire Department. Decision: We assign dot 2071.

Problem: There is no dot assigned to Quartz Hill TP QHTP. Decision: We assign dot 2036.

Problem: There is no dot assigned to Road Division 555. Decision: We assign dot 2098. John noted that the listed position of this site is wrong; the station is actually farther east. John and Nancy will correct this on the various Web pages.

Problem: There is no dot assigned to San Buenaventura. Decision: We assign dot 3160.

Problem: There is no dot assigned to Seven Oaks Dam. Decision: We assign dot 3082.

Problem: There is no dot assigned to Shorecliffs Middle School. Decision: We assign dot 2055.

Problem: Depending on which version we look at, dots 3068 and 3069 are assigned to South Mt Hawkins Lookout. Decision: We assigned dot 3068. Dot 3069 is still available.

(4) Replacement Sites

The following sites replace previously accepted sites, and get their dots:
San Gabriel High School replaces Gabrelino High School (which previously replaced Rosemead High School) because Gabrelino is building a new school.

Sonora High School replaces Coyote Creek Power Plant, where the ECI report indicated poor sky view.

Dorsey High School replaces Windsor Hills Magnet School, because the spot at Windsor Hills was too tight.

Navy Space Surveillance Station replaces Brown Field, which had several problems (nearby trees, possible future construction, demands for money).

(5) New Sites

We accepted the following sites, and assigned dots:

(dot 3055) El Monte Union High School
(dot 3036) Arvin Maintenance Yard
(dot 2034) Oasis Elementary School (rejected previously, reconsidered today)
(dot 2057) Norco Campus (RCC)
(dot 3136) Ozena Ranger Station
(dot 3106) Seal Beach Naval Weapons Center (gets dot of rejected Haynes GS)
(dot 2017) Figueroa Station
(dot 3135) Lockwood Valley Maintenance Yard
(dot 3133) Chuchupate Ranger Station
(dot 2035) Ventucopa Ranger Station
(dot 3127) Encino Reservoir
(dot 2040) Anaheim Hills Fire Station
(dot 2100) Tehachapi Airport
(dot 2097) High Vista Communication
(dot 3147) Camarosa Water Tanks

(6) Old Problems

We discussed progress on problems brought up in previous meetings:

Calabasas High School: Frank reports that drilling is going to be scheduled, in spite of the lack of utilities. Something (solar, cellular, whatever) will work out.

Canyon High School: The ECI report indicated possible landslide problems here. In previous meetings, we deferred this site until ECI could tell us whether we were likely to find anything better in this area. Frank reports that ECI is taking a second look at Canyon High School, and will look around the area too.

Huntington Park High School: This site was deferred so we could find out whether the school would approve ECI's alternate spot, and whether we could cut some trees. Nothing has been done about this. John Galetzka will take this on.

Live Oak Reservoir: This site was rejected for poor sky view. Thanks to the initiative of John Galetzka and Mike Duffy (MWD), a good alternate site on the same property has been found. ECI has looked at it, and thinks it's good.

Marine Exchange: The EC has made the decision to go ahead and install the antenna on the bunker wall. This will be done by Mark Smith, not by ECI.

Olga Reed School: John Galetzka chose a new spot on school property, and we approve it.

Orange Glen High School: This site turns out to be on weathered granite, which cancels previous objections.

(7) John Galetzka's Report

John Galetzka and Paul Jamason went on a road trip last week.

At College of the Desert, they did a 24-hour tracking test to see whether the tall palm trees are a problem.

At Iron Mountain Pumping Station, they decided that the previously selected spot was logistically difficult. This spot is on top of a hill, near a microwave tower, and on rock. John and Paul went there to do an RFI test, but decided that the drill rig and other vehicles would have a hard time getting up to the top of the hill. John estimates that they would spend at least two difficult, dangerous hours getting there. John and Paul selected an alternate site at the base of the hill. However, it is not in rock. We approve this trade-off between geology and logistics, but want ECI to evaluate both sites.

After the meeting, John told Nancy about another possible site. It was not discussed at the meeting because there was no lat/long. John has looked at Harbor College, about 3 km northeast of Palos Verdes Reservoir. A rough position, determined later by John and Nancy, is 33.78 -118.29. Although John originally investigated this site as a possible replacement for Palos Verdes Reservoir, it appears to John and Nancy that this site would fit in nicely with the current station distribution. The Siting Committee can "discuss" this site by e-mail.

Myra Medina (SIO) reports that the MWD permits to be held by Scripps are almost ready.

Paul Jamason (SIO) reports that Escondido High School District approved the Orange Glen High School site at their recent board meeting. That LUA should be in hand shortly.

This week John Galetzka was on a road trip with Art Varon, our latest volunteer. They have been looking at sites in Ventura, Santa Barbara, and Kern Counties. John will finish his whirlwind tour with visits to high schools in the LA Basin.

Siting Committee Meeting

Present

Duncan Agnew, SIO
John Galetzka, SCIGN Network Coordinator
Nancy King, USGS, Siting Committee Chairman
Frank Webb, JPL

(1) ECI's Site Evaluation Report Database

Everyone is pleased to see ECI's database of Site Evaluation Reports. Duncan would like to see more information at the top level. For example, it would be helpful to be able to see, without going down to the individual report, whether the site has as SER, whether it has been built, and whether it has been accepted by JPL.

Nancy noted that the database's list of sites "On hold by SCIGN" is very out of date. She will go through the list, note which are rejected or replaced sites, and pass the information to ECI via John Scheid.

(2) Proposed New Sites

Code,Latitude,Longitude,Name,Agency

BBDM,34.5821,-119.9818,Bradbury Dam,Bureau of Reclamation
HBCO,33.7839,-118.2857,Harbor College,?
JRVI,34.3557,-117.8593,Jarvi Memorial Vista,,USFS
LAHS,34.0,-118.0,Los Angeles High School,LAUSD
LAPC,34.183,-118.578,LA Pierce College,?
LDES,34.2665,-116.4308,Landers Elementary School,Morongo USD
MJPK,33.715,-117.553,Modjeska Peak,USFS
OXCO,34.1287,-118.2068,Occidental College,?
OEOC,33.770,-117.744,Orange Emergency Ops Ctr,Orange Co.
ONPK,34.1927,-116.7093,Onyx Peak,USFS
RSVY,34.5380,-119.1790,Rose Valley,USFS
SVHS,34.078,-117.981,Sierra Vista HS,Baldwin Park USD
TOST,34.2473,-118.8366,Thousand Oaks Sheriff Stn,Thousand Oaks
VEC2,34.405,-119.477,Cate School,?
VNCO,34.276,-119.237,Ventura College,?
WKPK,34.5690,-118.7423,Whitiker Peak,USFS
WNRA,34.0464,-118.0616,Whittier Narrows Rec Area,L.A. Co.
MRPK,35.04,-120.10,Miranda Pines Peak,?
no10,35.18,-119.90,Carrizo Plain Site,?
FLHS,34.40,-118.92,Fillmore High School,?
JPMT,34.03,-117.45,Jurupa Mountain Site,?
MTPS,35.48,-115.52,Mountain Pass,?
no12,34.83,-114.67,Needles Site,?
no13,32.62,-116.70,Barrett Site,?
no14,32.64,-116.17,Jacumba Site,?
no17,33.30,-116.31,Borrego Site,?
no18,33.58,-116.25,SW Coachella Valley S,?
VQRX,34.48,-118.33,Vasquez Rocks Site,?
non7,35.42,-118.33,Southern Sierra Site,?
non8,35.33,-117.67,Johannesburg Site,?
non9,35.42,-119.33,San Joaquin Valley Site,?

BBDM (Bradbury Dam)
We approve the location and the site characteristics.
Dot 2018.

HBCO (Harbor College)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3076.
John notes that the site is on raised terrace deposits.

JRVI (Jarvi Vista)

We approve the location and the site characteristics.
Dot 3067.
Everyone on the committee was concerned about the security of this site, which is at a scenic vista turnout on the Angeles Crest Highway. John Galetzka agreed that vandalism is a risk here. However, there is no where else to go in this area. The committee agreed that SCIGN will have to take a chance here.

LAHS (Los Angeles High School)

John Galetzka noted that the coordinates of this site should be 34.06 N, 118.21 W.
We designate this site as a backup to any of the sites in the general vicinity (Dorsey HS, East LA Science Center, Elysian Park, Fairfax HS).

LAPC (LA Pierce College)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3129.
John notes that this a rock site and that the permitting should be easy.

LDES (Landers Elementary School)

We approve the location and the site characteristics.
Dot 3151.
John notes that there is already an LUA for this site. However, the utility trench will be long.

MJPK (Modjeska Peak)

We approve the location and the site characteristics.
Dot 3070.

OXCO (Occidental College)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 2062.
John notes that the site is on a bedrock knob.

OEOC (Orange Emergency Ops Center)

This site replaces Silverado Elementary School, where an LUA seemed unlikely.
Dot 2053, previously assigned to Silverado, now goes to OEOC.

ONPK (Onyx Peak)

We approve the location and the site characteristics.
Dot 3081.

RSVY (Rose Valley)

We approve the location and the site characteristics.
Dot 3140.
John notes that this will be a radio/solar site.

SVHS (Sierra Vista High School)

We designate this site as a backup.

TOST (Thousand Oaks Sheriff's Station)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3157.
John notes that this is a rock site.

CATE (Cate School, Duncan's alma mater)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3139.
We changed the four-character code from VEC2 to CATE.
Duncan notes that the school is on a marine terrace.

VNCO (Ventura College)

This site replaces Saticoy, where John thinks we won't be able to get an LUA.
Dot 3161, previously assigned to Saticoy, now goes to VNCO.
We also agreed to free up dot 3160, previously assigned to San Buenaventura. All these locations (VNCO, Saticoy, San Buenaventura) are close to each other in coastal Ventura County.

WKPK (Whittaker Peak)

This site replaces Dog Kennel.
Dot 3044, previously assigned to Dog Kennel, now goes to WKPK.

WNRA (Whittier Narrows Recreation Area)

This site replaces El Monte High School.
We assigned dot 3056, and release dot 3055 (previously assigned to El Monte HS).

MRPK (Miranda Pines Peak)

We reject this site.

Carrizo Plain

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3039.

FLHS (Fillmore High School)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3156.
Since John doubts that we will be able to permit Toland Landfill, and since there are nearby alternate sites, we agreed to free up Toland's dot (3143).

(JPMT) Jurupa Mountain Site

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 2059.
John noted that Riverside County Flood Control is interested in this site. Furthermore, it has great sky view, is a good repeater site, and is on rock.

MTPS (Mountain Pass)


This site is near the California/Nevada border on Interstate 15. We agreed that we'd like to do this site, but we defer approval until SCIGN builds more sites and has a better idea of how many sites we'll be able to do.

Needles


This site is near the California/Arizona border on Highway 40. We agreed that we'd like to do this site, but we defer approval until SCIGN builds more sites and has a better idea of how many sites we'll be able to do.

Barrett

We reject this site.

Jacumba

We reject this site, which is near the junction of the San Diego - Imperial county line and the Mexican border, for now. We hope that a site farther east, in Imperial County, can be found. If that isn't possible, we will reconsider Jacumba later.

Borrego

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
We assign a dot, to be specified after John Galetzka does a "dot census," from the San Gabriel portion of Profile A.

SW Coachella Valley

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3116.

Vasquez Rocks

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3130.

Southern Sierra, Johonnesburg, and San Joaquin Valley sites

We defer decisions on these sites until we meet (possibly with the EC) to evaluate the current array, the feasibility of the dots in their present locations, and alternative plans.

LLAS (Lake Los Angeles School) and CHMS (Challenger Middle School)
These sites are in northeast Los Angeles County, along Profile A. The ECI Site Evaluation Report indicates non-tectonic subsidence. ECI will investigate alternatives, and the Siting Committee will use their information to make decisions about this area.

CRRS (Carter Reservoir)

ECI recommends accepting this site, although they note "subsidence rates of 5-20 mm/yr ... the result of both tectonic transtension and groundwater withdrawal." We still approve this site.

WCHS (West Covina High School)

ECI rejected the original site because of fill and underground utilities. The alternate site required removal of 1 or 2 trees. The high school has already cut down one tree. Frank wonders whether they will also remove, or at least trim, the second. John Galetzka will check.

COTD (College of the Desert)

We did a tracking test because the site is surrounded by tall palm trees. The test showed that the trees do cause cycle slips, but that the automatic data cleaning algorithms fix the slips. John Galetzka will check for a better spot on campus. Meanwhile, this site is still on hold.

FTFF (Foothill Feeder Facility)

ECI found that the original site is on fill. They found an alternate site on a nearby ridge owned by DWR. John Galetzka found a building anchored in bedrock, and proposes mounting the antenna on this. MWD apparently surveys on top of this structure. Nancy will ask Mike Duffy for the survey information, and also arrange a tracking test. Meanwhile, this site is on hold.

Canyon High School

This site is now OUT because it is on the toe of a landslide. ECI and John Galetzka will look for a replacement.

SMAP (Santa Monica Airport)

John Galetzka reports that he is not getting much cooperation in permitting. He proposes that we investigate using a bunker call at Venice Power Plant, while continuing to pursue the LUA at SMAP.

(3) Plans

John Galetzka will look at the unassigned dots in the San Gabriel portion of Profile A and in Ventura County. He will assess which dots cannot be built. The committee will then meet, face to face, to decide where to put these dots. We will invite the EC to participate in this meeting

We will write a report explaining the scientific and logistical reasons for our decisions.

has been replaced by

FMTP,34.4097,-118.8937,Fillmore Teleport site

because FLHS permitting wasn't working out. The FMTP LUA is now in hand after one week, a SCIGN record. FMPT is on a ridge east of Fillmore; the property has an antenna farm, but the proposed site is well above the antennas.

John further reports that LAUSD will send us LUAs for our signature next week. We will send them back for LAUSD signature, and then we'll be all set.

The site at Seal Beach Naval Weapons Center is probably unsuitable because of geology and the presence of an Indian midden. There are probably nearby alternative sites.

Since October, we have received LUAs for San Gorgonio Pass (SGPS), Fillmore Teleport (FMTP), Lava Bed Mountains (LBMT), Orange Glen High School (OGHS), Bell Gardens Intermediate School (BGIS), Occidental College (OXYC), Lockwood Valley Maintenance Station (LVMS), 7 LA Unified School District sites, Blink 2 (BLN2), Burnt Peak Communication Site (BRPK), and West Ord Mtn Communication Site (WOMT).

Note: The table of accepted, rejected, and backup sites has NOT yet been revised to reflect the results of this meeting. This is because Nancy discovered that she clobbered the file at some unknown time, probably before AGU. It has been reconstructed, but the version you now see on the Web is out-of-date and may contain errors. It will be checked and updated after the holidays.

Present:

Duncan Agnew, SIO
John Galetzka, SCIGN Network Coordinator
Nancy King, USGS
Frank Webb, JPL

Proposed New Sites

Code,Name,Latitude,Longitude

A254,AT&T Stn 254 near McKittrick,35.3254,-119.7180
BCWR,Bitter Creek Wildlife Reserve,34.91,-119.4
BHTP,Banning Heights Treatment Plant,34.0060,-116.9167
EDMH,Edom Hill,33.870,-116.432
H632,Camp Pendleton,33.2943,-117.3304
IVCO,Imperial Valley College,32.8297,-115.5069
MDPK,McDonald Peak,34.633,-118.991
NHRD,Nordhoff Ridge,34.49,-119.16
OVLS,Olive Lands School 34.3269,-119.1414
RAMT,Rand Mountain,35.3427,-117.6799
SUMT,Sulfur Mtn (NOAA site),34.4119,-119.1794
TCMT,Tecuya Mtn,34.8433,-118.9823
VDPK,Verdugo Peak,34.2165,-118.2802
WWMT,Whitewater Mtn,33.9559,-116.6558
CBFP,Camp Boron Federal Prison,35.079,-117.577
OKRG,Oak Ridge VOR,34.357,-118.884

A254 (AT&T Station 254)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
Dot 2032.
This site needs an RFI test. From now on, we will assume that all sites near towers will get RFI tests, and that John Galetzka and Paul Jamason will take care of this.

BCWR (Bitter Creek)

This site replaces Camp Condor because it has better sky view. This will be a solar/radio site.

BHTP (Banning Heights TP)

We approve the locations and site characteristics.
Dot 3083.
This site is on weathered granite. We can probably get utilities from the office.

EDMH (Edom Hill)

We reject this site, because the deformation is probably very local (possible creep, possible "pushup" structure) and because the site is too close to WIDC and PSAP. John Galetzka reports that he and Paul Jamason think there is little chance of finding something closer to Thermal -- no roads!

H632 (Hill 632, Camp Pendleton)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
Dot 3104 (from the Palos Verdes Peninsula).
Frank Webb expressed concern about too much density near Palos Verdes. The committee agrees that we shouldn't find any more sites there.

IVCO (Imperial Valley College)

Backup. Although this site is on top of a dot, we'd prefer something farther west of the Imperial fault. John and Paul will check out the prison.

MDPK (McDonald Peak)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3153.
John reports that this will be a jackhammer, solar/radio site. It is on USFS land. There is a road, and no communication tower.

NHRG (Nordhoff Ridge)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
Dot 3141.

OLVS (Olive Lands School)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
Dot 3144.
This site will have a long utility trench, like MUSD.

RAMT (Rand Mountain)

We reject this site.

SUMT (Sulfur Mtn)

We reject this site, because we'd prefer something closer to Casitas.

TCMT (Tecuya Mtn)

We reject this site.

VDPK (Verdugo Peak)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
Dot 3050.
This will be a solar/radio site.

WWMT (Whitewater Mtn)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
Dot 3080.
This will be a solar/radio site, and also a good repeater site.

CPFP (Camp Boron Federal Prison)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
Dot 3059.

OKRG (Oak Ridge VOR)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3146.

Elysian Park: A citizens' group objects to construction in this LA City Park. John Galetzka and Bob Packard are not ready to give up on this yet.

Seal Beach: Archaeological problems will add to the cost, and possibly even force us to abandon this site in the middle of constuction. The added cost will be $3000 to $6000. However, there are few other possibilities in this area. We agree to let the permit simmer, since it will take a few months anyway. We will revisit this question when the permit comes in and we have a better idea of how costs are going.

SAHS (San Andreas High School): This site may fall off the sled because of trouble picking an exact spot.

COTD (College of the Desert): Frank Webb and Yehuda Bock asked John Galetzka to ask the college if we could have a different spot on the campus. Unfortunately we can't, because we'd be in the way of future construction. The current spot, surrounded by palm trees, is less-than-ideal. However, Yehuda has proved that the data can be processed. Since we have few options in this area, we approve the current spot.

LLAS and Challenger Middle School: John Galetzka reports no word yet from Marti Ikehara (USGS Water Resources) on alternate sites. A paper Duncan saw at AGU suggested to him that our profile is NOT in the subsidence zone anyway. Frank will find the appropriate SAR image and check on this.

Structure mounts: Putting monuments on deeply-anchored structures, like we did at VTIS, is a good option at Vincent PP, Foothill Feeder, and Whittier Narrows. Frank will bring this up at the next EC meeting.

A Final Happy Note

John Galetzka reports that we now have 99 LUAs. Good work, John and Paul!

Present:

Duncan Agnew, SIO
John Galetzka, SCIGN Network Coordinator
Nancy King, USGS
Frank Webb, JPL

Proposed New Sites

Code,Name,Latitude,Longitude,Comment


CAT2,Catalina Island Conservancy,33.354,-118.351,none
CSST,Casitas Station,34.4072,-119.364,none
NOPK,North Park,33.9790,-118.3486,Has LUA
LJPK,La Jolla Peak,34.1149,-119.0488,none
SSPK,Sandstone Peak,34.1195,-118.9342,Rock pin monument
SVFL,S. Sevaine Flat,34.2116,-117.5039,none
RSTP,Rosamond TP,34.8753,-118.1897,Resubmission - no images
SUPK,Sunset Peak,34.217,-117.689,none
SIPK,Simi Peak,34.204,-118.781,none


CAT2 (2nd site at Catalina Island)

We accept the general location. There is no specific site yet.
Dot 2070.


CSST (Casitas Station)

We accept the location and await further information on site characteristics.
The site is on a bedrock knob on Bureau of Reclamation land leased by the Forest Service.
Dot 3152.


NOPK (North Park)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
Dot 3110.


LJPK (La Jolla Peak)

We approve the location of EITHER LJPK or SSPK (below), whichever one ends up working out. To keep the count of accepted sites correct, LJPK is in the list but SSPK is not.
We also approve the site characteristics.
John says the geology is good.
Dot 3150.


SSPK (Sandstone Peak)

We approve the location of EITHER SSPK or LJPK (above), whichever one ends up working out. To keep the count of accepted sites correct, LJPK is in the list but SSPK is not.
We also approve the site characteristics.
This would be a rock pin or rod. The FAA, state parks, and maybe a local rancher would have to approve the LUA.
Dot 3150.


SVFL (Sevaine Flat)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
Dot 2086.
This is colluvium over highly fractured gneiss.


RSTP (Rosamond Treatment Plant)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
This site is owned by AVEK, which has been very fast with permitting.
The site is on volcaniclastics.
Dot 3042.


SNPK (Sunset Peak)

We approve the location and site characteristics.
This will be a solar/radio site.
Dot 2054.


SIPK (Simi Peak)

We approve the location and await further information on site characteristics.
Dot 3131.

Dot Reassignment

We have so many sites chosen now that, even though some of them won't work out, we can see fairly clearly where we're going. We think that there are surplus dots in the LA Basin and along Profile A, and decided to move or free up the following dots:
Dot 3010 moves from -117.87643, 34.09639 to -117.65, 34.1. The old location is on Profile A, just south of the San Gabriel front near Azusa. This part of the profile is already very well covered by existing stations AZHS, CVHS, WCHS, and and planned station SGDM. The new location for dot 3010 is about 20 km east, in the southwestern "neck" of San Bernadino County.


Dot 2061 moves from -118.33660000, 33.92120000, in Hawthorne in the LA Basin about 8 km east of LAX. This region is with 3 to 4 km of existing station LASC and planned stations ECCO and LAFB. The new location for dot 2061 is -117.55, 33.54, in southern Orange County.


Dot 3124 moves from -118.15290,34.02752, in East Los Angeles. We think that there are already enough stations in this area, including existing stations BKMS, DYHS, and HPHS, and planned stations BGIS, ELSC, and SHHS. The new location is wherever we eventually decide to put it.


Dot 3053 moves from -118.10525, 34.14526, in Pasadena. We think there are already enough stations in this area, including existing station CIT1 and planned stations ECNC, SGHS, and TCHS. The new location is -118.4, 34.15, in Studio City.


Dots 2094, 3069, and 3071 cannot be permanently drilled; John Galetzka's reconnaissance in the San Gabriel Mountains shows this. However, we will leave these dots where they are, and propose at the next CB meeting that SCIGN build cheap monuments for campaign surveys.


Along Profile A north of the San Andreas fault, we move dots 3061 and 3062 (old locations -117.78493,34.78632 and -117.82971,34.60748, respectively) to the Eastern California Shear Zone. Nancy will research the ECSZ and report back to the committee.

ECI Reports

We discussed and approved recently finished ECI reports for
SACY
COTD
ECCO
SGPS
BGIS
MHMS
EWPP

Final Approval on Previously Accepted Sites

We discussed and approved photos for
BCWR
BLN2
BRFL
GHRP
GLMT
HWMT - Need to cut trees; John Galetzka is already negotiating this.
JPMT
LAPC
OEDC
OXYC
PSAP
TOST
VQRX
WKPK - In shadow of tower. In sky view hole, but multipath? John will arrange 2-day tracking test.

Ken Hudnut's E-mail of January 27

On January 27, Ken Hudnut asked that the Siting Committee to discuss the issues below. The rest of the EC also wants our response.

1. Extension of Profile

Ken's question:

Extend "Profile A-A'" all the way to Goldstone, to cross the northern Mojave desert section of the eastern Mojave shear zone. In Duncan's recent assessment of SCEC velocity map stations, SCIGN network coverage, and plans for upcoming campaign- mode GPS, this area shows up clearly as a void. John Galetzka picked a station on Rand Mtn. in this vicinity that was then rejected by the Siting Committee. If anything, I think we need Rand as well as several other sites basically between Edwards AFB and Goldstone - preferably spaced between the known faults.

Our answer:

We agree, but want to span the Eastern California Shear Zone. Nancy will research the literature on this so that we put together a specific plan.

2. Needles

Ken's question:

Bill Young and the surveying community have their reasons for putting a station here - my interest is in having broader coverage around the SCIGN periphery and also taking advantage of real-time telemetry from TriNet for some of the SCIGN peripheral stations. If we have real-time data from Needles and a few other stations that are highly unlikely to be displaced much in a future large event, it could help greatly in solving for near-field displacements.

Our answer:

Previous discussions in the Siting Committee involved reluctance to commit limited SCIGN resources to a far-flung site until we had some idea of how many stations we would ultimately be able to build. Now, although co-location with the Terrascope station and accommodation of the surveying community are good ideas, we question the scientific reasons to put a station at Needles. This is especially true since GNPS (recently built) already extends the network far to the east. However, further research on the ECSZ is needed. Unless we learn that Needles would help span the ECSZ, we propose this compromise: Needles builds a good pin or rod monument near the Terrascope site, and SCIGN contributes a receiver.

3. Imperial Valley College

Ken's question:

Sure, this station is close to the Imperial fault, but Duncan wasn't it you who has said that it shouldn't matter if a station is very close to a fault? Why was this station rejected by the siting committee?

Our answer:

In regions of low station density, we want to be away from the fault. Paul Jamason is working on a site at the state prison to the west. If that doesn't work out, we will reconsider and probably accept Imperial Valley College.

4. Thermal Airport

Ken's question:

We will again ask Marti Ikehara for her views on subsidence here if you'd like, but her report, Ikehara et al. USGS WRIR 97-4237, 1997, shows that at benchmark S753 1945 which is within about 2 km of the proposed SCIGN station, there has been 0.3 feet of subsidence from 1945 through 1996. The SAR interferograms I've seen of the Coachella Valley are all de-correlated in the low-lying areas surrounding this airport. The 0.3 feet measured here is nearly within errors of the methods used. There is no systematic large historical subsidence pattern recognized in the Coachella Valley despite agressive groundwater withdrawal during the past several decades. I have asked John Galetzka to begin investigating the Thermal Airport site for a SCIGN station. The 3-D rod monument there is part of the SCEC velocity field data set from STRC and other campaigns (VORO). I am attaching a file showing the velocity of VORO with respect to other stations near it.

Our answer:

No problem. Thernal Airport would be an easy site. A site there will correpond to the site listed "SW Coachella Valley site" on the "accepted" list.

John Galetzka's Report

Site code changes:

THCC is now THCP (Tehachapi Plant)
SRHL is now PKRD (Ascot Hill)
SUPK is now SNPK (Sunset Peak)


The LUA for Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (USLO) is going back to them for final signature, so we should have that LUA shortly.

The first spot picked at Vasquez Rocks (VQRX) didn't work out. L.A. County said it was on an archaeological site, and was visible from the road (risking vandalism and complaints). John Galetzka and L.A. County picked a new spot last week. However, they recommend that we get an archaeologist to consult.

SIPK (Simi Peak) fell off the sled. The site is on Park Service land, and the road to the site is lined with oak trees. John has determined that the drill rig would tear up these trees. He is confident that he can find a replacement site in Agoura Hills.

Seal Beach Naval Weapons Center (SBWC) has now been officially rejected.

Status of new sites (180 total):
38 new sites on-line.
21 sites built but not yet on-line.
44 sites permitted but not yet built.
77 sites accepted by the Siting Committee, with LUA in progress.
Changes to accepted sites:
Charro Grande Ranch has fallen off the sled, because of communication and permitting problems.
Thermal Airport replaces the generic SW Coachella Valley site.
CSHP is out because of permitting problems. SSPK replaces it. That is, the Siting Committee's January 28 to use LJPK or SSPK was changed to use LJPK and SSPK since CSHP is now rejected.


Recent LUAs:

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo (USLO)
Puddingstone Dam (PSDM), San Gabriel Dam (SGDM), Big Tujunga Dam (BTDM). These are all L.A. County Public Works sites. Olivelands School (OVLS)
Philips Lab, Edwards AFB (PHLB)
Palm Springs Airport (PSAP)
Rosamond TP (RSTP)


Other:

John Galetzka and L.A. County Parks have picked a new spot at Vasquez Rocks (VQRX).
A new geography/GIS instructor at Ventura College (VNCO) is very anxious to have a SCIGN sites on campus, so maybe that LUA will now progress.

Present:

Duncan Agnew, SIO
John Galetzka, SCIGN Network Coordinator
Nancy King, USGS
Frank Webb, JPL

Proposed New Sites

Tania Gonzalez was not able to attend the ECI monthly meeting yesterday, so Nancy and Frank were not able to talk to her about CHMS at that time (as agreed at yesterday's Siting Committee meeting). However, they did mention the issue to Eldon. Today, Nancy and Tania had a phone conversation. Tania said that she and Eldon will visit CHMS next week to look at the crack and try to determine its origin. Tania also pointed out that the population growth in the Antelope Valley may cause groundwater pumping, and hence subsidence, to increase in the future.

Fremont High School (FRHS), although permitted, fell off the sled after a new principal proved inhospitable. John is confident that a replacement can be found nearby.

Site code changes:

Shorecliffs Middle School is now officially coded SCMS (formerly SHMS).
Salton City Maintenance Station is now officially coded SLMS (formerly SCMS).

Reconnaissance and Permitting

The permit for Santa Monica Airport (SMAP) was set back by the news that, contrary to previous reports that our request was being reviewed by the city, the paperwork is lost. John Galetzka sent them another set.

John Galetzka thinks that permitting on Temple City High School (TCHS) is not going anyway, and wants the Siting Committee to consider kicking it off the sled without replacement.

John Galetzka has gladly accepted Andrea Donnellan's offer to help with the permitting of Happy Valley School (HVYS).

The SCIGN Annual Meeting

The two-day SCIGN Annual Meeting was held last week at USC. Frank Webb, John Galetzka, Nancy King, and Eldon Gath all gave talks relevant to reconnaissance and permitting. The results, boiled down from all speakers, are:
We're almost done finding the 200 new sites. We have about 15 to go, although it is inevitable that some of the sites we are currently waiting on will fall off the sled. Anyone with ideas about where to put sites is invited to send e-mail to the Siting Committee (nking@gps.caltech.edu, dagnew@


Permitting is a serious bottleneck. The contractor could work more efficiently if he could determine his schedule far in advance of the work and if there were sets of permitted sites in outlying areas.


The median time from reconnaissance to permit is 18 weeks. Small school districts and independent colleges are the fastest. Big bureaucracies are the slowest. There is no magic formula to speed up permitting.


ECI is helping with some of the reconnaissance and permitting, as requested by SCIGN.


The urban sites are costing more because of site remediation.


At the sites where percussion drilling is necessary, the extra cost of drilling is not offset by the decreased time it takes to drill.

Last Chance to Influence Siting Decisions!

People were invited, both at the end of Nancy King's talk at the SCIGN Annual Meeting and later by e-mail, to look at the distribution of new sites and get their suggestions and comments in before it's too late. The Siting Committee will consider all suggestions at its next meeting (probably the week of April 12).

So far four people have responded, and one more response is on the way. Issues include

Shall we do survey-mode measurements in the San Gabriel Mountains, where we've exhausted the supply of suitable spots for drilled monuments?

How should we connect SCIGN and SBAR?

Should we put more sites along the San Gabriel front and in the Ventura Basin?

Six people have now responded with e-mail suggestions about network design. The cumulative list of issues is:
Shall we do survey-mode measurements in the San Gabriel Mountains, where we've exhausted the supply of suitable spots for drilled monuments?

How should we connect SCIGN and SBAR?

Should we put more sites along the San Gabriel front and in the Ventura Basin?

Shall we put a site at Needles? The surveying community wants one, and there is also a seismic site nearby.

Shall we build more "PIN1-PIN2" experiments? At the SCIGN Annual Meeting Hadley Johnson presented the results of tracking-environment experiments done at Pinyon Plat, where the monuments are only about 100 m apart. Similarly closely-spaced monument pairs in other geologic settings could extend our understanding of the effects of trees, fences, and other obstructions.

The Siting Committee will consider all these suggestions, plus any more that come in, at its next meeting. Because of the members' schedules, this meeting will probably be the week of April 12.

Permitting

The land use agreement for Saddleback College (SBCC) should arrive very soon.

John also reports that he and Bob Packard propose replacing Elysian Park (EYPK) with Silverlake Reservoir (SILK). The problem at EYPK is also permitting.

Nancy King will be on vacation April 5 through 9. The next Siting Committee meeting is scheduled for the morning of April 13.

Present:

Duncan Agnew, SIO
John Galetzka, SCIGN Network Coordinator
Nancy King, USGS
Frank Webb, JPL

1. Report from John Galetzka

A. John reported difficulties with permitting or replacing two stations on the current list of accepted stations:

Fremont High School (FRHS): This site already had an LUA. However, as reported on March 11 of this year, a new principal recently took over and this person did not want SCIGN at the school. John proposed 66th Street Elementary School (66ES), but recently heard that the school turned us down. Given the difficulties in this area (South Central Los Angeles), John asked the committee to decide whether he should continue looking. The only possibilities left are a couple of middle schools. The committee decided that we would like a site in this area, if possible. However, to avoid spinning our wheels over one site, we are setting a two-week deadline. If John can't find an alternative by then, we will accept the existing station density in this area.

Temple City High School (TCHS): We have accepted and later replaced several sites in this area. The people at TCHS are not responding to John, and will not even return his phone calls. Furthermore, sky view is rather poor. John reports that this area has lots of trees, and that it will be hard to find a site with decent sky view. Again, John asked the committee whether he should continue looking in this area. As before, the committee set a two-week deadline for John to find a good site or give up.

B. Fillmore Teleport (FMTP):

Eldon thinks that the entire hillside may be failing. However, since ECI's Site Evaluation Report rates the site as "excellent" while noting landslide potential, we have asked ECI for clarification.

Update, one week later (written by Frank Webb): At the May 4th monthly meeting with ECI, GEI, RBF, and SCIGN, ECI distributed a geologic map and cross section showing the problem at FMTP. The site is on a small peak on an east-west ridge with young landslides to the south and north of the peak. The peak and the landslides are themselves part of a larger block that may have a young detachment surface underneath. The detachment is inferred from geomorphic features to the north of the ridge. There is a potential alternative site to the east of FMTP with possibly less potential for landslides, but which is still over this possible detachment. There is no evidence for active motion on detachment. However, at this alternate location, phone, power, and ownership are unresolved (and as usual may not be unresolvable in a reasonable amount of time). John Galetzka in coordination with ECI was tasked with investigating the ownership of this site. If this site is not viable, the feeling was that FMTP would be acceptable. Since much of the area has young landslides or incipient landslides, these two sites highlight the difficulty of finding sites in this area that are neither in nor near landslides. We must be careful and judicious in which sites we choose and we may not be able to get completely away from these types of situations.

2. Suggestions from CB Members and Others

At the SCIGN CB meeting in March, Nancy King reported that the Siting Committee is almost finished selecting the new sites. She invited people to send e-mail suggestions to the Siting Committee, and told everyone that this was the last chance to influence site choices. Several people did send e-mail, and the committee discussed their requests. Below are summaries of the e-mail proposals and the committee's decisions.

A. Proposals from Andrea Donnellan and Bruce Luyendyk:

Andrea Donnellan, with support from Bruce Luyendyk, made 4 proposals for sites:

1. To place "sites that cannot be put to the north of the frontal fault system" "just to the south of the frontal fault system in Ventura and the northern LA basin", with priority given to the Ventura Basin, followed by "the Pasadena area". These sites would "greatly enhance our chances of understanding the steep velocity profile observed across the basin."

2. To consider a site on Loma Verde Peak, where Andrea has a contact.

3. To reconsider the site at Lone Juniper Ranch, which is "across the San Andreas fault from Frazier Park High School in granite." This pair of sites "could prove very interesting in the event of a large earthquake either on or off of the San Andreas fault."

4. To place an additional site south of the Ventura basin at the California State University Channel Islands. "The bedrock is very competent and there is a bunker on which a monument could be placed."

Our responses:

1. While we support and recognize the desire for additional density in this region, we feel that the station density is already close to the highest density found in the network (with the exception of the Los Angeles Basin and Profile A) and that few addittion sites are possible given the difficulty that SCIGN has had in finding sites in the area that have suitable geology (see FMTP above), have cooperative land owners, and give a reasonable station distribution in this part of the network. We direct John Galetzka to gook for an additional site at an approximate location of 34.4 N 118.8 W.

2. We will consider Loma Verde peak as a possible backup to Foothill Feeder Facility, where we have an LUA but are not sure we can drill. Andrea should contact John Galetzka to discuss her contact for Loma Verde, so that the site can be investigated and they can coordinate on any issues that may arise.

3. We reviewed the history of the Lone Juniper Ranch site, which we had considered twice before. This was identified as a possible site in April 1998, and was permitted very quickly. The nearby site at Frazier Mountain High School (FZHS), first identified as a possible site in December 1997, also received an LUA in April 1998. John Galetzka preferred FZHS, in part because of the goodwill built up during the permit process. Therefore, at its May 14 meeting the committee designated Lone Juniper Ranch as a backup to Frazier Mountain High School. When Frazier Mountain was built in July 1998, Lone Juniper Ranch was dropped. At the request of Ken Hudnut and Frank Webb, it was reconsidered at the committee's recent meeting on March 9, 1999. The idea was that Lone Juniper Ranch and Frazier Mountain High School, both within 1 km of the San Andreas fault but on opposite sides, would provide a good record of any slip from a large Tejon Pass earthquake or any other possible shallow source. The committee acknowledged this but noted that, since this part of the fault is locked, the relative motion would be negligible until such an earthquake happened. We decided that we preferred to put SCIGN resources into a more general distribution of sites.

In our rediscussion of this idea, we again concluded that we do not want to invest SCIGN resources in a pair of sites that will have no relative motion during the interseismic period. When an earthquake happens, there are other ways (SAR, for example) to detect the coseismic signal.

We also discussed building this site as part of a short baseline experiment, but the spacing between Lone Juniper Ranch and FZHS is too large (2 km) to provide the high precision needed for monument-noise studies (see Hadley Johnson's #1 proposal, below).

4. We had already accepted, and then rejected, a site at California State University Channel Islands. This site is called Camarillo State Hospital (CSHP) on the Web pages. In March 1999, John Galetzka decided to abandon CSHP because of lack of any response from the people at the site. On January 28 1999, John had presented La Jolla Peak (LJPK) and Sandstone Peak (SSPK) to the committee. We decided to accept one of them, and left it to John to decide which one he liked best. Once John reported to us that he wanted to abandon CSHP, the committee decided to accept both LJPK and SSPK.

We agree that a site at CSHP would fit well into the network design, if we can solve the permitting problems. If Andrea is able to obtain a permit for this site, and it meets our usual quality criteria, we will accept CSHP.

B. Proposal from John McRaney:

1. To resolve the question of survey mode sites in the San Gabriels, in lieu of permanent sites.

Our response:

1. John Galetzka has recently received three promising leads for sites in the San Gabriels. See Section III, New Sites, below. However, John remains convinced that there will be a gap in the profile if we rely on drilled sites. The committee is currently holding two dots in reserve for survey-mode sites in the San Gabriel Mountains. As we see it, such sites would count against the SCIGN budget but not against the construction budget. However,the committee passes this decision on to the CB, which will meet soon.

C. Proposal from Hadley Johnson, Frank Wyatt, and Yehuda Bock:

1. To deploy three or four sites within 100 meters of already existing SCIGN sites, to "give us more than just the PIN1/PIN2 experiment to understand monumentation issues, antenna and equipment change issues, and other site-specific effects like trees, fences, and other obstructions. To the extent possible these sites should span the types of local geological setting sampled by the network."

2. To place a site on "Isla Coronado, which is located in Mexican waters just south of the international border", for which Javier Gonzalez at CICESE has obtained permission to install continuous GPS. "Most maps of the offshore faults show several strands converging near this island, demonstrating its importance in unraveling the offshore puzzle."

Our responses:

1. The committee accepts one such drilled monument, at a location to be decided on by Hadley and John Galetzka. This pair should be in typical basin alluvium. Frank Webb noted that this idea orginated when SCIGN first discussed how to site the first 15 NASA receivers At that time, TORP was discussed as a possible location for this "monument farm".

The committee also proposes a duplicate installation at a rock site. Since the current wisdom in the GPS community is to install rock pins, we should test such sites. John Galetzka thinks that there is enough room for a second receiver in the current box at MATH. This would be a good way to test rock pins at the cost of one receiver and a little field work by SCIGN people.

2. We accept the proposed new site at Isla Coronado. As at the other island sites, construction would be done by SCIGN.

D. Proposal from Bill Young

1. To place a site at Needles, which may get financial support from the surveying community.

Our response:

1. We accept the Needles site.

E. Proposal from Brian Wernicke, Ken Hudnut, and Nancy King

1. To eliminate the gap between the networks, install at least 5 sites "between the latitudes of Barstow and Shoshone, from the longitudes of the southern Sierra to Las Vegas." More specifically, to add the following sites (not including sites already accepted at this or previous meetings):

Mountain Pass,35.4864,-115.5604
Baker,35.2602,-116.0824
Wingate Wash,35.7624,-116.9341
West of Owens Valley,37.2149,-118.6154
East of Owens Valley,37.4977,-118.1511


Our response:

1. We accept Baker OR Mountain Pass, leaving it to John Galetzka to select which site he prefers. We reject the other three sites as being either logistically difficult, outside of SCIGN's area, or both.

At a recent meeting of the SCIGN Coordinating Board, the Siting Committee presented a list of 208 stations. The Board voted to accepted these sites. The Siting Committee has now finished its work. The SCIGN Executive Committee and the Network Coordinator (John Galetzka) will decide what to do if any of these sites need to be replaced or dropped.

Bye!